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In His love,
David Nikao Wilcoxson
Hey David! I wanted to run something by you, I was looking into the gold old Federal Reserve, you know the ones who would never deceive us? Lol but anyways I ran across a ladies article that spoke about we already have the mark of the beast. Which I was so convinced I would I fall for. I have to say I agree 100%. Links at the bottom, I wanted to hear your thoughts.
http://themarkofthebeast.com/42us666.shtml
Great perspective on it I think. Thanks again, you sir changed my life. I hope you change many more.
Hey Kadje 🙂 First of all, the Father isn’t going to condemn people for having a social security number. That would mean that almost every American has the mark and is condemned, which makes no sense!
The mark of the beast is about who you revere and obey, not a SS#, not an RFID chip or tattoo.
The Father will condemn people for revering (mark on forehead) and obeying (mark on right hand, actions) the antichrist beast Pope. That’s the mark of the beast.
The number of the beast points to a man, to the office of the papacy, the Popes of Rome. This study shows you the titles of the Popes fulfill prophecy as the number of the beast. http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-earth-beast-of-revelation-13-jesuit-generals-of-rome/
Hi there,
It says on your site:
Most of the people called Jews in Israel descend from these Khazar Jews, and are not descendants of Abraham.
Note that Revelation 3:12 says, “Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.” (end of quote).
Whereas I appreciate and agree with most of the website’s content, the notion that today’s Israel stems from the synagogue of Satan is simply incorrect (REV 3:12 pictures unbelieving Jews who were not Jews as per ROM 2:29 but persecuting the Nazarenes). Despite any Khazarian element or centuries of intermarriages, the Israelis are still descendants of Abraham. In 536 BC Israel’s “Seven Times of Punishment” began and in 1948 they terminated (just as her Great Tribulation which had commenced in 70 AD).
1948 saw the fulfilment of the unconditional Abrahamic Covenant and since then we have been witnessing the restoration of Israel. All those attempts to explain away the Jews’ right to their homeland – by Arabs, Anglo-Israel advocates, certain Christians, and other Gentiles – boil down to Antisemitism (deliberately or ignorantly).
Anyone lifting a finger against literal Israel, God‘s people, will be cut in pieces – God‘s vengeance on the Gentiles will be terrible (though not all the Jews will be saved either).
On another note, I don‘t think it is scriptural to teach about a One World Government based on a single verse (REV 16:19). Unless you can produce a second witness, I would tend to relate the split of the great city to literal Jerusalem in this case.
My tuppence worth.
Kind Regards
Jake Wilson
Hi Jake, thank you for sharing your perspective. The challenge is that DNA testing shows that most of the people proclaiming to be Jews are not the descendants of Abraham, and that they are Turkish in origin.
This lines up with the Khazarians (who were primarily Turkish) in Eastern Europe who converted the Judaism. They were pushed out of the land of Khazaria and migrated into Poland, Russia and Germany. Then circumstances caused many of them to move to the land of Palestine.
This fulfilled the portion of the 6th bowl that shows that after the Ottoman Empire (symbolized by the Euphrates River) was dried up, and they lost control of the lands of the Middle East; then that would prepare the way of the ‘kings of the east’, the Khazar Jews (now called Ashkenazi Jews),who now control the state of Israel.
The Khazar Turkish Jews had a king and they came from Eastern Europe, the kings of the east. Every Israeli Prime Minister has come from Poland or Russia, which is where the Khazar Jews had lived; and each of them changed their last name to sound more Jewish, and to hide who they really are. http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/the-zionist-state-of-israel-in-revelation/
The Apostle Paul told us who the true Jews, the true Israelites, are; those who have a covenant relationship with the Father through the Son.
As for the One World Government, I don’t base it on a single verse. The whole narrative of Revelation builds up to that point.
I believe that the three unclean spirits are the three world wars, which will serve to push the world into the One World Government.
The two leaders (horns) of the end-times Roman earth beast are the antichrist beast Pope and the false prophet Superior General; who will lead the One World Government, and cause people to join with them, thus having the mark of the beast; revering (mark on forehead) and obeying (mark on right hand, actions) the antichrist beast Pope.
Revelation 19:19 says that those two leaders of the One World Government will gather their armies to fight against Messiah.
Jerusalem has not been called ‘the great city’ but in John’s day the great city of Rome was known by all.
The three parts of the Roman beast, which is called ‘the Great City’ are already in place. We can clearly see how the Superior General of Rome is controlling the world via those three city-state corporations.
We can see how earthquakes point to political upheaval, so the greatest earthquake in history represents the greatest political upheaval in history. Does that not point to countries (mountains of people) losing their power and bowing to the authority of the One World Government system of the Roman beast? I think so!
Keep learning and growing in The Way!
David
Thanks for your reply David,
Firstly, why should I be surprised that every prime minister had come from Poland or Russia considering that God had scattered His people into the whole world, and Poland especially was fairly tolerant towards the Jews.
Secondly, the DNA and Khazar arguments are simply antisemitic attempts to discredit the Jews’ identy and their right to their homeland (and you have fallen prey to this propaganda).
Thirdly, the Jews are God’s people whether they accept Christ or not. That they have been punished for their idolatry, e.g., burning babies for centuries is another matter. But because the Abrahamic covenant is unconditional, God brought them into the Promised Land in 1948 (and I would advise you to find the many prophecies about this date in Scripture).
Jeremiah 22:8 calls Jerusalem the Great City, and REV 16:19 refers to Great Babylon (Rome), after having mentioned the fall of the nations and the split of the Great City – twice the same great city? The whole of Revelation leads up to Armageddon, viz., God‘s vengeance on the Gentiles (which will be short), but to read a One World Government into it is quite a stretch.
Scripture says people will be hit in broad daylight – no begging for bread from the Jesuits after WWIII:
MT 24:37-38 “As in the days of Noah, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be… they ate, they drank, they got married… ” LK 17:28, referencing Sodom, adds, “… they bought, they sold, they planted, they built…”
Keep learning and growing in the Way!
Jake
Jake, you cite the Abrahamic Covenant, but that wasn’t given just to the Jews, it was pointing to the 12 tribes of Israel. It was made to those who had a covenant relationship with the Father, those who believe by faith. A remnant of Israelites believed by faith and were saved, the rest served false gods and were lost. A remnant of Jews had faith in the promised Messiah, the rest rejected Him and delivered Him up to be killed and were lost; and were desolated in 70 A.D.
The Apostle Paul clearly said that there are two types of Israelites, fleshly descendants and the true spiritual Israelites who believe by faith. Which ones are God’s people? The ones who believe by faith.
You ignore the Masonic/Satanic symbols on the Israeli Supreme Court building, showing you whom they serve. The building was designed and funded by Satanist Lord Rothschild, who controls Zionist Israel, which is why there’s a Satanic HEXagram on the flag.
The irony of you saying that the DNA arguments are antisemitic is that some of the scientists who proved it are Jews. http://christianitybeliefs.org/end-times-deceptions/who-are-jews/
Daniel foretold four beast kingdoms and the final one clearly describes Rome. John picked up the narrative to show how Satan has empowered the Roman leader to make war with Messiah and His saints. The great city of Revelation is clearly Rome, which was in power when John wrote Revelation. Jerusalem had been desolated by the Romans, so he would not have pointed to it as a great city.
Revelation 17:10-11 points to the seven forms of government, from which the 8th king, the antichrist beast Popes of Rome would rise to power.
Revelation 17:18 points to the harlot church, the Roman Catholic Church, of the antichrist beast Popes. http://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/revelation-17-the-harlot-roman-catholic-church/
Revelation 13:17 clearly says that “no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.”
David
Hi David, as brief as possible in bullet points:
1. The Jews are not only those from Judah. The terms Jew, Hebrew, and Israelite are used interchangeably in Scripture.
2. The literal descendants of Abraham (the Jews) enter the Abrahamic Covenant through physical circumcision.
3. The Abrahamic Covenant and the New Covenant (“Renewed” if you prefer) were given first and foremost to the Jews, not to the Gentiles.
4. It was God’s providence that the Jews rejected Christ, so He could extend the New Covenant to the Gentiles, viz., graft them into Israel and make them partake of Abraham’s promises (justification through faith & entering the Promised Land). They would remain Gentiles though (but saved).
5. ROM 11:1+25 shows that God doesn’t forsake His people, but that they will remain blind till the fullness of the (Times of) the Gentiles has elapsed – a gradual process (1897, 1917, 1948, 1967, etc.).
6. Firstly, you only become part of God’s people by being born again of water and spirit (as shown in Acts and by the sign of speaking in tongues) – that is what saving faith entails. Secondly, you misunderstand Paul. The fleshly descendants of Israel remain God’s people whether they accept Christ or not, but they are not saved in the latter case. A born again Gentile is circumcised in heart and thus becomes part of Israel (God views him as a “Jew/Israelite” but technically he remains a Gentile). A merely physically circumcised descendant of Israel won’t be saved, but he nevertheless belongs to God’s people, the Jews.
7. Only born again Jews and Gentiles are saved; they are the “Israel of God” (GAL 6:16).
8. I have no issues with the Papacy being Antichrist, but its temporal power ended in 1870 and it won’t rise to power again ( “not being able to buy or sell unless having the mark) has been fulfilled in history – no need to wait for a chip implant).
9. Yes, the “Star of David” is of occult origin, but that doesn’t turn Israel into “the synagogue of Satan”. Israel is very secular, and Tel Aviv resembles Sodom more than some Western cities do. So what? A remnant will be saved, not the whole of the Israeli State.
10. John was given a revelation of future events, thus he saw Jerusalem at Christ’s return – rebuilt. The Jewish Quarter was an Arab slum area till 1967, and today it has been beautifully restored – it is a Great City again (N.B. despite continuous attacks, flawed and biased media reports as well as antisemitic propaganda, Israel has turned desolation into bloom within a few decades, and ranks today amongst the world’s most powerful and technologically advanced economies).
11. People are always impressed by so-called scientific facts; I work in the Physics department and see every day how children are being fed lies dressed up as science (Big Bang, evolution, etc.). Those DNA facts are antisemitic propaganda, and people like Arthur Koestler, for example, have an occult background (if you want to trust these people – fine). As said, I prefer to believe what the Word says about the population of Israel, about the people who were once scattered throughout the world, about the survivors of a Holocaust which was the climax of Israel’s punishment for her idolatry – ordained by God (they were not gassed because they were not Israel, but because they were).
Blessings,
Jake
Well, you don’t lack for opinions Jake. Sadly, your perspective is askew.
The terms Jew, Hebrew, and Israelite are not used interchangeably in Scripture.
Every Jew is an Israelite and a Hebrew; but not every Hebrew is a Jew, and not every Israelite is a Jew.
There were 12 tribes of ISRAEL, only one was the tribe of Judah, so 1/12th.
The 12 tribes split into the 10 tribes of the House of Israel, and the 2 tribes (Judah and Benjamin) of the House of Judah.
Read Isaiah and Jeremiah and you know that they are about the House of Judah, not the 10 tribes of Israel.
You have your perspective, and nothing that I say seems to convince you otherwise, so there’s no need to comment on all of your points.
David
They may teach that in Sunday School, and the naive then repeat such stereotypes like parrots for the rest of their lives, however, those who go a bit deeper won’t.
A careful reading shows that the separation of the House of Judah & the House of Israel was neither complete nor ongoing. For instance, a number of each of the northern tribes took up residence in Judah (cf. 1 KIN 12:17; 2 CHR 11:3, 16; 15:9-10; 24:5; 30:1-6; 31:6; 34:9).
After that time the label “Jew” referred not only to the specific tribe of Judah but also to the tribe of Benjamin, the Levites and indeed the remnant of all the northern tribes. That is also why Jeremiah uses “Jew” and “Hebrew” interchangeably when referring to Moses (EX 21:2; LEV 25:46; JER 34:9).
But, as said, they don’t teach that in Sunday School.
I certainly didn’t learn any of what I teach on my websites in Sunday School or from Pastors. What I teach does not parrot what they teach. And obviously I’ve gone much deeper in researching and putting together the studies on the website. Just because you disagree does not mean that my explanations are wrong.
I’m still waiting for you to explain on the 70th week of Daniel comments, when did Messiah start His ministry, based on what verse(s)? And what time of year did that take place?
Hi David,
The Great Tribulation of MT 24 was not fulfilled in 70 AD but began in that year, and ended after the second destruction of “Jerusalem” (the Shoah of the Jewish people) in 1948 = the Times of Gentiles being fulfilled (LK 21:24).
Neither was Jacob’s Trouble of DAN 12 fulfilled between 66 and 70 AD. Daniel asked when the time of unparalleled affliction of his people would end, and the answer was given:
A time, times, and a half = 360 + 720 + 180 = 1260. The two raised hands in Daniel 12:7 signify a doubling of years: 1260 + 1260 = 2520, which equals seven prophetic times. Daniel received the vision in 536 BC and simply adding 2,520 Jewish years you arrive at 1948. That year the “Seven Times Punishment” which God had warned about came to an end (Leviticus 26:24). It has nothing to do with 3 1/2 literal years.
Unless you begin to understand how God deals with literal Israel, you are only scratching the surface, David.
Regards
Jake
Hi Jake,
It’s ironic that you tell me that “Unless you begin to understand how God deals with literal Israel, you are only scratching the surface, David”; but you don’t understand that Messiah’s Olivet Discourse and Daniel 12 are about the desolation of the Jews.
By proclaiming that the great tribulation of Matthew 24 was not fulfilled in 70 AD, you dismiss Messiah’s clear statement, “Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
Messiah had just berated the Jewish leaders, casting woe upon woe on them, and He said “Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.”
Messiah proclaimed that the current generation would reject Him. “But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.” Luke 17:25
It’s obvious that Messiah was talking about the temple and the Jews being desolation in 70 AD, in that generation of Jews. http://theolivetdiscourse.com/this-generation-of-matthew-24/
The context of the Olivet Discourse is that Messiah had proclaimed that the temple would be desolated, and the disciples asked for a sign to know when it was about to happen. Luke 21:20-21 tells us that the ‘sign’ is the (Roman) army surrounding Jerusalem. This matches Daniel 9:26-27, that because the Jews would reject Messiah and deliver Him up to be killed, that the ‘people of the prince’, the Roman army, would desolate the temple and city.
The first division of the Roman army surrounded Jerusalem in 66 AD, and they built ramps up the walls and were ready to take the city captive; when for no explained reason, they left.
The saints obviously saw this sign, and they took opportunity to flee Judea to the mountains. The Jews were emboldened and they stayed.
Then three division of the Roman army surrounded Jerusalem, but because Emperor Nero died, they did not attack until they were given orders by the new Emperor. So they cut off the food supply, which led to hundreds of thousands of Jews dying from famine, pestilence, infighting, suicide and crucifixion. And then in 70 AD, 1,290 days after the Abomination of Desolation appears, the Roman army flooded the city and killed hundreds of thousands of Jews by the sword. The siege ended suddenly after 45 days, after the last stronghold of Jews surrendered, fulfilling the 1,335 days of Daniel 12. It also fulfilled Messiah’s statement that “except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.”
Nobody was buried during this time so there were 1.1 million dead Jews in and around Jerusalem, and the birds and wild animals fed on their flesh. Sounds like a time of great tribulation to me. And it all happened in that generation, just like Messiah proclaimed that it would. http://theolivetdiscourse.com/the-great-tribulation-of-matthew-24/
Regards,
David
Hi again David,
You need to learn to read more carefully without immediately injecting your own bias.
If you study the history of the Jewish people you will realize that what you write below is only part of the Great Tribulation. Both Daniel 12 and MT 24 reach forth until the return of Christ. Yeshua does not describe 70 AD, leaves a gap of 2,000 years, and then picks it up again from “The Son of Man coming in the clouds” (not as the Jesuits do with the Book of Revelation). MT 24:34, which you quoted, refers to all the historical events that will happen before Christ returns.
Do you really believe that God has nothing to say in His Word about the fate of His beloved people? During the 2,000 years of her scattering, Israel was blamed, oppressed, stigmatized, ghettoized, persecuted, banished, massacred, crucified, burned, drowned, hanged, shot, deported, starved, sterilized, gassed and almost annihilated. Had the Third Reich continued, none of God’s chosen people would have survived.
Whereas Revelation is predominantly about the tribulation of Christians, Daniel 12 and Matthew 24 (Mark 13, Luke 21) are about the affliction of the Jews, i.e., the Diaspora.
(I you prefer to believe antisemitic propaganda which identifies the Jews as Turks, Edomites, Mongols, etc., then, of course, the above won’t interest you).
Also, key verses such as Luke 21:24 cannot be ignored or explained away by saying, “Yeah, that’s when the Romans had destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD” – which is simply ludicrous.
I trust you know that “The Times of the Gentiles” are the four Gentile Kingdoms which would oppress Israel for 2,520 years (1,260 years through Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Pagan Rome, plus 1,260 years through Papal Rome). They are the “Seven Times Punishment” (LEV 26), also alluded to by the Seven Times of Nebuchadnezzar being degraded to a beast.
Have you ever been to Israel? I can highly recommend it, it will open your eyes to many things.
God bless,
Jake
Hi Jake, so far you haven’t proven anything to me, but you claim that I need to “read more carefully without immediately injecting your own bias.”
“His beloved people?” You use the name “Israel” but your description is just describing the tribe of Judah, the Jews.
Here’s some Words from the Father about the Jews from the book of Jeremiah, which tells a different story:
Jeremiah 5:8-9 They were well-fed lusty horses, Each one neighing after his neighbor’s wife. “Shall I not punish these people,” declares the Lord, “And on a nation such as this Shall I not avenge Myself?
Jeremiah 6:6-8 For thus says the Lord of hosts, “Cut down her trees And cast up a siege against Jerusalem. This is the city to be punished, In whose midst there is only oppression. “As a well keeps its waters fresh, So she keeps fresh her wickedness. Violence and destruction are heard in her; Sickness and wounds are ever before Me. “Be warned, O Jerusalem, Or I shall be alienated from you, And make you a desolation, A land not inhabited.”
Jeremiah 7:17-18 Do you not see what they are doing in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? “The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead dough to make cakes for the queen of heaven; and they pour out drink offerings to other gods in order to spite Me.
Jeremiah 7:33 The dead bodies of this people will be food for the birds of the sky and for the beasts of the earth; and no one will frighten them away.
Jeremiah 9:3 And like their bow they have bent their tongues for lies. They are not valiant for the truth on the earth. For they proceed from evil to evil, And they do not know Me,” says the LORD.
Jeremiah 9:13-16 The Lord said, “Because they have forsaken My law which I set before them, and have not obeyed My voice nor walked according to it, but have walked after the stubbornness of their heart and after the Baals, as their fathers taught them,” therefore thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, “behold, I will feed them, this people, with wormwood and give them poisoned water to drink. “I will scatter them among the nations, whom neither they nor their fathers have known; and I will send the sword after them until I have annihilated them.”
Jeremiah 11:13-14 “For your gods are as many as your cities, O Judah; and as many as the streets of Jerusalem are the altars you have set up to the shameful thing, altars to burn incense to Baal. “Therefore do not pray for this people, nor lift up a cry or prayer for them; for I will not listen when they call to Me because of their disaster.”
Jeremiah 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together,” says the Lord. “I will not pity nor spare nor have mercy, but will destroy them.”
Jeremiah 14:11-12 So the Lord said to me, “Do not pray for the welfare of this people. “When they fast, I am not going to listen to their cry; and when they offer burnt offering and grain offering, I am not going to accept them. Rather I am going to make an end of them by the sword, famine and pestilence.”
Jeremiah 15:3 And I will appoint over them four forms of destruction,” says the Lord: “the sword to slay, the dogs to drag, the birds of the heavens and the beasts of the earth to devour and destroy.”
Jeremiah 17:4 And you, even yourself, Shall let go of your heritage which I gave you; And I will cause you to serve your enemies In the land which you do not know; For you have kindled a fire in My anger which shall burn forever.
Jeremiah 19:7-8 I will make void the counsel of Judah and Jerusalem in this place, and I will cause them to fall by the sword before their enemies and by the hand of those who seek their life; and I will give over their carcasses as food for the birds of the sky and the beasts of the earth. I will also make this city a desolation and an object of hissing; everyone who passes by it will be astonished and hiss because of all its disasters.
Revelation mentions that the 12 tribes of Israel are being sealed, so they are part of the narrative.
Yes, I’ve been to Israel, and it did open my eyes.
David
Well, you wrote I hadn’t understood that MT 24/DAN 12 is about the Jews – which shows that you don’t read properly.
Bias will only accept as proof what it wants, not what is true – so why should I expect to convince you of anything?
I have explained somewhere else why “Jews” is not only used for those from Judah, and as for the rest of your message I have difficulties to follow you.
Do you think God stopped loving His people because they sinned? Why do you think they were punished for 2,520 years and ended up in Auschwitz? Do you think their tribulation shows that God was once and for all done with them?
The book of Acts documents that 3,000 Jews believed on Pentecost, and many more Jews believed during the 70th week of Daniel; so Elohim certainly did not stop loving His people. All who believe in Messiah are ‘true Israel’ just like the Apostle told us. And all Israel was saved, because they fled Judea after they saw the sign of the Abomination of Desolation, the Roman army surround Jerusalem. They fled to the mountains for safety, and Jewish historian records that none of them were killed by the Romans, so indeed “All Israel was saved”. But the fleshly Jews stayed in Jerusalem and were desolated.
Yeah, I know all this David.
The literal descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob still exist – partly scattered in the world, many in America, and increasingly in the State of Israel. They are God’s Chosen People, also if most of them have rejected Messiah so far.
You are only saved because of them and their covenants which were extended to you, and you better never forget this, mate.
I can promise you that God will destroy anyone who lifts their finger against literal Israel. I would therefore advise you to bin your replacement theology and find those prophecies which refer to literal Israel, because they are the important ones today.
Just because I believe that the 70th week of Daniel, the prophecies of Daniel 12 and the Olivet Discourse, were fulfilled in the 1st century; doesn’t mean that I teach replacement theology.
Most of the Israelites worshiped false gods and were lost, but a remnant believe by faith and were saved. Most of the Jews rejected their promised Messiah and were lost, but a remnant believed by faith and were saved.
Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, etc., all believed by faith and looked forward to the promised Messiah atoning for their sins; now we look back to that event. Messiah ratified the everlasting covenant with His blood as the Passover Lamb.
The House of Israel had regathered to the Northern Areas, were Messiah found His disciples and spent most of His time preaching the Gospel. He said that He was sent for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
The promise of Isaiah 9 was fulfilled, in that Messiah came to those places to minister to the House of Israel. Matthew 4:13 says that Messiah began His ministry in Capernaum, in the regions of Zebulun and Naphtali, where the ten tribes of the House of Israel used to live.
Messiah fulfilled Jeremiah 31:31-33 and joined the two houses back together.
Messiah’s church is built on the foundation of the House of Israel. Revelation points to the 12 tribes of the House of Israel being sealed before the trumpet war judgments came against the Roman Empire.
The 12 tribes are scattered around the world, many in Europe and America.
Literal Israel is made up of people who have a covenant relationship with the Father through the Son.
Hi David,
As I have mentioned before, though you rightly reject the Jesuit deception, you go into the other extreme of limiting Dan 12 and the Oliver Discourse to the 1st century, and that’s were you go wrong. Passages such as “some shall awake to everlasting life”, “they shall shine as the stars for ever and ever”, or “seal the book to the time of the end” are far easier explained by applying them to the time they refer to, i.e., to the end of this age/dispensation (the next dispensation being the millennium) instead of squeezing everything into the first century.
Needless to say that I don’t have the answer for everything either. I suppose, like you, it’s a matter of studying the Bible and other material, trying to verify information, praying about it, and then one either approves of it or discards it (and also needless to say, that I often had to drop long-held beliefs and had to admit that I was wrong).
A few years ago I printed out the Olivet Discourse and compared every single verse of MT 24, MK 13, and LK 21 with each other. I mainly wanted to get clarity about whether there will be a future Great Tribulation (which everyone talked about) or not.
As you rightly state, there was great tribulation in 70 AD – Mark says “affliction” and Luke says “great distress” (am using the KJV though it’s not my favourite version anymore). However, that wasn’t the sole message of the Olivet Discourse. In Jewish culture, stories are not related in a strictly linear way like in the West, e.g., “this happened, and then that happened, and afterwards that happened, etc.”, – it’s rather like a spiral as one can often see in the Book of Revelation: first, an overview is given, and then the story starts again from scratch with more detail. And this is exactly what we find in the Olivet Discourse.
MT 24:3-14 summarizes history right up to the second advent, stating that the gospel would be preached all over the world before the end comes. Now, I have had a few debates on other topics and realised that nowadays people will prove & explain away anything they want – it’s just a matter of finding a convenient Bible version, some “respected” commentary, or the good old, “Well, the Greek actually shows that… “. Thus, surely one could argue, “The Greek shows that only the Roman world is meant, and the nations are actually the different areas within the Roman Empire, and the end is of course 70 AD”. Now, even if the Greek could mean that (I’ve just made that up), the context of the entire discourse plus comparable passages such as Daniel 12 (and many others) show that it indeed refers to the time period shortly before His return (and the missionary activities within the last centuries plus 1,500 available NT translations support this notion fairly well).
After having provided an overview of all main events preceding His return, Christ goes back in time and starts to explain in detail the impending judgment on unbelieving Jewry – Jerusalem’s destruction in 70 AD (MT 24:15-22).
Now, I don’t want to sound too patronizing, but just to remind ourselves: another common Hebraic feature of Scripture is its dual, sometimes triple application – types & antitypes, foreshadowing, etc.
It’s easy to see that if 70 AD was the “Great Tribulation such as had never been since the beginning of the world” (confirmed by Josephus, as you well know), and that “it shall never be again” (v. 21) – then it’s clear that there won’t be any future world-wide “Great Tribulation” affecting also Gentiles, especially since Christ was solely talking about the Jews’ affliction.
I have never checked the application of the 1,290 and 1,335 days to 70 AD, and you may be well right here, in which case this is an interesting parallel. But again, the time frames given in Daniel 12 have at least a second meaning which reach right up to the millennium.
MT 24:23ff. then describes events from 70 AD till the second advent (which is imminent in my opinion). Again, there are so many things which will be difficult to reconcile with the first century, such as the false prophet who is “in the desert” (Mohammed) or the false Christ who is “in the secret chambers” (where they elect the Pope), but – yes – you will find a way to ‘prove’ that this and all of Matthew 24 occurred in the first century, just like the Jesuits ‘prove’ that some 80% of Revelation hasn’t occurred yet – no offence.
Now, what I couldn’t understand is the following: “If the great tribulation of the Jews in 70 AD was never to occur again, then what about the Holocaust? Was the death of 1.1 million Jews and 97,000 slaves worse than the 6 million who perished by the Nazis, amongst them 1.5 million children? If Jesus spoke about His own people and about the main events of history, why would He not mention the Shoah (Holocaust), or the Spanish Inquisition, or the Crusades?” I couldn’t make sense of that – till I saw LK 21:24: “They shall be led away captive into all nations… until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”
I noticed that you, David, identify the Gentiles with the Romans, but the above verse means the same as “when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people” (DAN 12:7). Daniel enquired about his own people, the Jews, the holy (“set apart”) people – these are not the saints of Revelation (the protestant martyrs). These verses in Daniel and Matthew refer, like dozens and dozens of other verses in the OT, to the Diaspora. The “Times of the Gentiles” are not the mere five months during which Jerusalem was raised to the ground – the “Times of the Gentiles” refer to a very long period of Gentile dominion and oppression spanning millennia (I have explained this in a previous comment).
One can count those 2,520 years from many different starting points (Assyrian deportations, rise of Babylon, accession of Nebuchadnezzar, etc.), either in solar, lunar, or prophetic years – one always arrives at significant events in Jewish history.
I knew that God had warned Israel that He would punish her for “Seven Times more” (for seven additional times), if she refused to repent (e.g. LEV 26:28). Despite the Assyrian deportations and the Babylonian Captivity she did not repent. Thus, God punished her for Seven Times, starting at the end of the Babylonian Captivity in 536 BC (I am aware that several dates are possible, but I fiddled around with calculations, and this is the one I use as a starting point).
Again, there are different views but I chose 536 BC also as the year in which Daniel received his vision in DAN 12. The “time of trouble” in DAN 12:1 is the same as the “great tribulation” in MT 24:21. Daniel was asking when this period would end (v. 6), and he was given the answer in v. 7: after 2,520 years (I have explained this also previously). These are “prophetic” years, i.e., each year consists of 360 days (2,520 prophetic years = 2,483 solar years):
536 BC + 2,483 = 1948.
MT 24:21 is dual in meaning. 70 AD meant a people’s “great tribulation such as was not since the beginning of the world…” and then, envisioning the end of the world, Christ added, “no, nor ever shall be.” He didn’t mention the Holocaust, He did not verbally express it, but it would be the Jews’ “great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world, no, nor ever shall be.”
I have just come back from Poland visiting in-laws, and in a museum in Warsaw I read this:
“… those people who say that Israel has never experienced sufferings as these are mistaken. At the time of the destruction of the Temple etc., there were [sufferings] such as these. May God have mercy and call an end to our troubles; may He save us immediately, now and forevermore.” (Sermon of Rabbi Kalonimus Kelmisz Szapiro delivered in the Warsaw Ghetto. Hanukkah, December 1941).
Isaiah prophesied that Jerusalem would receive DOUBLE for her sins (ISA 40:2), i.e., Jerusalem, which also stands for the Jewish people themselves, would be destroyed twice: in 70 AD (city/temple/people) and at the climax of God’s national collective punishment of Israel at the end of her scattering – through the Shoah (“Destruction”). Jeremiah calls it “double destruction” (JER 17:18; cf. JER 16:18).
Both the Diaspora/Great Tribulation and the “Times of the Gentiles” ended in 1948 (Brits, Arabs, Turks all being Gentiles). Ultimately, the times of the Gentiles will only come to a final close at Christ’s coming at Armageddon (the final conflict and God’s vengeance on unsaved Gentiles).
I am pasting something in here, as it’s just too much to write – it starts with a reference to the Holocaust and is – IMO – a description of the mountains & mass graves of corpses discovered by the allies (Ezekiel’s “Valley of Bones”):
“These bones represent the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our hope is lost, we have been utterly destroyed.” EZEKIEL 37:11
Only two years after the war, in November 1947, the UN voted to establish the State of Israel. Never before in history had a nation been virtually extinguished, its people scattered to the ends of the earth, and then, nearly 2,000 years later, re-gathered to their homeland and re-established as one unified nation:
“Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the Gentiles, whither they have gone, and will gather them from all around and bring them into their land, and I will make them one nation.” EZEKIEL 37:21-22
Israel’s heavily outnumbered victories of the 1948 War, the Six-Day War in 1967 and the Yom Kippur war in 1973 stunned the entire world. To this day, experts cannot adequately explain the 1967 victory, because they only look for natural causes and effects; they don’t understand divine providence:
“Five of you shall chase 100, and 100 of you shall put 10,000 to flight. All your enemies shall fall before you by the sword.” LEVITICUS 26:18
Despite continuous attacks, flawed and biased media reports as well as anti-Semitic propaganda, Israel has turned desolation into bloom within a few decades, and ranks today amongst the world’s most powerful and technologically advanced economies.
“This former wasteland has become like the Garden of Eden; the abandoned cities that were lying in ruins are now fortified and inhabited.” EZEKIEL 36:35 [end of quote].
Now, coming back to your message and replacement theology:
If you are born again (I suppose you speak in tongues?), then you are “spiritual Israel” (if you will), and you are part of God’s people but you can never turn into literal Israel – a Gentile cannot become a Jew (when Paul said “he is a Jew who is circumcised inwardly and not in his flesh”, he meant that only those “who have a covenant relationship” are accepted in His eyes and are saved – both Jews and Gentiles need to be born again, that is what counts). BUT – as said above, after the Jews’/Israel’s time of punishment had elapsed, God brought them back into their homeland. Not because they had accepted the Messiah, but because of the Abrahamic Covenant which is UNCONDITIONAL, and which they have kept through physical circumcision since Abraham. The Jewish people were cursed for 2,500 years because they broke the Mosaic Covenant, but since 1948 God has started to bless them again (the Houses of Israel & Judah were united as one nation in 1948, see EZEKIEL 37:19-22, not by Christ 2,000 years ago). They would never have won the Arab-Israeli War in 1948, nor the Six-Day War in 1967 – against six Arab nations (!), impossible to win without having God on your side.
ROMANS 11 shows that God has never given up on His own people Israel despite their unbelief. After all, someone had to reject and crucify the Messiah otherwise you and I would be lost – and God chose the Jews for this task (you and I are only grafted in like the mixed multitude of old).
1 PET 1:1 and JAM 1:1 shows that the twelve tribes were scattered all over the place, not just in the Galilee as you write. ACTS 2 says that the Jews had come from Syria, Minor Asia, Europe, Africa, Arabia, etc. to keep Pentecost – they were a contingent of all the twelve tribes scattered abroad, they hadn’t just travelled down from the Galilee some 100 miles away.
As commanded by God, a remnant of all the twelve tribes was present at Passover (EX 12:47) when Jesus was crucified. 50 days later, Peter addresses the Jews as “all the House of Israel” (ACTS 2:36). Why would he have done that if not all the House of Israel had been present?
Maybe I misunderstand you, but in Jesus’ day the House of Israel meant the twelve tribes, not just the ten. Yeshua did not preach to ‘the ten tribes only’ while dumping “the Jews from Judah” (His own tribe) because “they were hopeless anyway”. The lost sheep of the House of Israel, the twelve tribes, were His own – the Jews. They were lost, i.e., they weren’t saved, and only few got saved while the majority rejected him (which is why the gospel was later taken to the Gentiles).
To slowly come to an end, I am not quite sure why you mention the 12 sealed tribes in Revelation? As said, most of Revelation is written in code: Babylon doesn’t mean Babylon but Rome, a Menorah doesn’t mean a Menorah but a church, etc. – all those symbols are taken from the history of literal, ethnic Israel to describe the “Christian church”. Thus, those 144,000 have nothing to do with the literal tribes of Old Testament Israel. They represent true Christians who were protected from the trumpet judgments against Pagan Rome.
On a similar note, and as you’ve cited the passage, “those who say they are Jews and are not” refers to unbelieving Jews who were not circumcised in heart and thus they weren’t the kind of Jews whom God accepted – but this is to be seen in a spiritual way. Paul also said that “there is neither Gentile nor Jew, etc., but Christ is all, and in all” (COL 3:11). This doesn’t mean that Gentiles and Jews literally have stopped to exist, but that God doesn’t see a difference if they are in Christ – all were once sinners, and all were accepted in Him.
The main thing is to understand that modern Israel is indeed a miraculous fulfilment of prophecy, despite all the Jesuits, Khazars, Edomites, etc. A “third part” of the Israelis will be saved when Armageddon hits (ZECH 13:8-9) – besides the ten thousands in the State of Israel who have accepted Christ and are saved already.
Calling yourself “literal Israel” sounds very much like replacing, but I think you actually mean that those in Christ are the “true Israel” which God accepts, and in this sense you are right. “Literal Israel” means “ethnic Israel”, and unless your lineage goes back to Jacob (which may well be of course), you are not literal Israel.
Thanks for sharing your perspective Jake. I don’t have time to comment on all that you wrote. We all have to keep learning and growing in The Way! David